who was richard cheating with in knives out

Walt and Donna's son is Jacob, a strange boy who his family is worried is becoming a member of the alt-right, who loves to call his cousin Meg a "snowflake." She gets killed for her efforts. Oh, so that's where you were all night. Knives Out is a campaign for a 100 percent inheritance tax, . The Thrombeys are all elated to find out Ransom was cut from the will saying it's the best thing that could have happened to him. The extended family of famous mystery fiction author Harlan Thrombey. : The film gives viewers the sense that in the early days of her friendship with Andi, she was someone who wanted to affect change and would've balked at the idea of taking bribes or voting in favor of special interests at the expense of the people she sought to represent. When he's arrested at the end, none of the family can even look at him, save his father, who fruitlessly tries to bribe an officer for his release. The family takes advantage of her closeness with Marta and uses her to try to get the latter to renounce her inheritance. her son's plan to give his entire inheritance to Marta goes off successfully while Ransom is put behind bars where he belongs. She's coded as a self-absorbed, superficial socialite who considers herself to be above the law. Warning: This post contains spoilers about the film. Christopher Plummer stars as the cantankerous millionaire after playing a similar role, that of John Paul Getty in All the Money in the World, a performance that saw him receive a Golden Globe nomination in 2018. On the other hand, Meg is among the family, even focused on, when they look up at Marta standing queen-like on the balcony of. Knives Out. Linda Drysdale They thought that if Whiskey could seduce Miles, she could convince him to promote both of their brands with his new 24-hour media enterprise, garnering them more followers. Walt, he was in the bathroom. Richard Drysdale He also wills his entire estate to his nurse and best friend Marta. Once the veneer comes off however, he's the same arrogant, racist jerk as the rest of his family. Then she met Ransom in a remote location, ranting about how everyone would know what he did. So it goes with the Thrombeys, spinning fairy tales about their "self-made" successes as they take turns shoving one another under the bus Blanc is . He killed Duke via his allergic reaction to his mixed drink. : Ransom for attempting to get Harlan poisoned. The Thrombreys all value themselves as a family unit and, The more conservative Thrombey family members have a very negative and harsh view of immigrants who don't enter the country "the right way" in their eyes; Richard is especially adamant that adverse consequences be visited on immigrants who break the law. He even willed the entirety of his holdings to Marta specifically, Harlan and Marta both believe she has accidentally lethally dosed him with excess morphine, and Marta is set to be Harlan's sole heir. once again dies from massive blood loss from a neck wound, retracting all of it to get them to learn to stand on their own two-feet, but the trope is actually still in effect, batting them at Marta when convincing her to trust him, Ransom drops any pretense of innocence of the crimes and admits that he was the one who tried to kill her. She champions the idea that the family should continue to support her after Harlan's death; but when Marta offers the same support to her, she seems to become cold and find it as patronizing. At first glance, Richard is a pleasant, easygoing man. If we're counting in-laws, his son-in-law, Richard, who is cheating on his daughter, Linda. Andi's stamp of approval is what gained a person admittance into the club, so Miles doesn't just have Andi to thank for the idea he stole, he owes his entire social life to her. allowed Marta to call an ambulance like she wanted instead of jumping to orchestrate a. Though there's an obvious class difference between them, Birdie does seem to appreciate Peg, and she is never shown to act with outright cruelty toward her. While returning it to her father's desk, she discovers the invisible-ink letter from Harlan that Richard left out, having dismissed it as blank. Why this tale of murder, betrayal, and family secrets is, surprisingly, a comforting and uplifting story for the holidays. However, to have a cast that involves Jamie Lee Curtis, Ana De Armas, Chris Evans, Daniel Craig, and so many more, is notable. Though he quickly jumps back to her side upon both of them realizing she's innocent, with Marta just happening to be such an honest person, Sees a stain of blood on Marta's shoe the very first time he speaks with her and figures out that she is involved with Harlan's death somehow, only keeping quiet because he could tell that she wasn't the kind of person who would have killed Harlan directly. He doesn't do anything wrong in the film until his conversation with Marta when it's clear he's, although deleted scenes heavily suggest it was done at the hand of thugs that Walt has gotten severely into debt with, and Blanc does exploit this at one point. The cast of "Knives Out," with victim Harlan Thrombey in the centre, Don Johnson and Jamie Lee Curtis in "Knives Out", Michael Shannon and Chris Evans in "Knives Out", Ana De Armas and Katherine Langford in "Knives Out", Daniel Craig, Lakeith Stanfield and Noah Segan in "Knives Out", Everyone Practices Cancel Culture | Opinion, Deplatforming Free Speech is Dangerous | Opinion. She killed Harlan, after he knocked a Go board over and she accidentally mixed up his medicine bottles in the confusion. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Sure, the Thrombeys could afford nice homes and private schools from Harlan's stories, but they didn't bankroll Senate campaigns, own a Greek Island, or rent the Mona Lisa. After searching Harlan's desk for the evidence of Richard's affair, he throws Harlan's baseball out the window to land on the front lawn. when working on his cover-up, instructing Marta to use very specific fragments of the truth, exploits it, having seen it firsthand the year prior when Marta tried to participate in a game of "Mafia," forcing her to come clean about (what she thinks was) her role in Harlan's death. Arguments over whether to take Klear to market caused the rift between Andi and Miles. Also her reaction when she gets a note with a copy of Harlan's bloodwork, and a note saying, "I know what you did. [cut to Richard being questioned] And to top it all off, Ransom tries to kill her upon being found out. Marta blames herself for Harlan's death and thinks that she doesn't deserve any reward for it, renounce the will immediately is that she can't think straight, and coming clean to the cops about what happened would mean that her mother would get deported, like that. She is to blame, but not necessarily because she's an evil capitalist. Miles thought it was worth the risk for the reward billions if not trillions of dollars, not to mention political power. Will she continue to partner with Benoit Blanc, now that she's proven herself to be a savvy sleuth? This is the reason why he doesn't immediately clue in on Miles in, where Helen always consults him on what moves she should take next to find the killer. All smiles. : It's unclear if this definitely still stands by the end of the film, but Marta never actually contradicts it. While his mother constantly boasts of how she's a self-made woman who started her own business, he points out that she was only able to start her real estate business "from the ground up" after Harlan gave her a million dollar start up loan. As such, he watched plenty of themand. However, Richard, Joni, and Donna only joined the family through marriage, and Joni's link to them, her husband Neil, has been dead for years, with her only remaining part of the Thrombeys by complete choice, Marta's mother is undocumented, they use her as leverage to blackmail Marta (if they, Marta's mother is undocumented to her racist family who're all looking for leverage. Or do they? Until she realizes that it would affect her personally, and make her drop out of school (or need to get student loans and a job), then she joins with her family in trying to pry the inheritance from her. Inside he finds only a blank piece of paper. Richard Drysdale is the husband of Linda Drysdale, and the father of Hugh "Ransom" Drysdale. Richard Drysdale And on the off-chance Richard managed to find it and tried to get the letter first, he wrote it in heat-sensitive ink to make sure he would think it was just a bluff to get him to come clean, when in reality Linda, who knew Harlan and his passions enough to recognize the invisible ink, would try and hold a fire under it. However, rather than taking the less risky option, Ransom's pride couldn't allow a servant to get the family inheritance, so he opens up the risk of him being found out all for his sense of family ego. What's more, he isn't the only one. Unnamed Thrombey (Deceased Mother in Law). Walt Thrombey Quotes. Other than that, a third Johnson-Craig team up will almost certainly take place in a new location, with a new closed circle of villains, victims, and innocent bystanders testing Benoit Blanc's professional acumen and patience. She's the first person to find Harlan dead in his room. To do that, she'd have to win her election, and "Glass Onion" ends abruptly, without comment. Claire (Kathryn Hahn) became a politician. Richard is politically conservative: it is heavily implied he voted for Trump in the 2016 election, and he is opposed to illegal immigration. Richard added a third finger, stretching her further, threatening to make her scream. With his 2019 hit "Knives Out," writer-director Rian Johnson helped reinvigorate the murder mystery movie. To prevent his horrified friend from losing her imminent inheritance and to protect her reputation and family, Harlan quickly constructs an escape for Marta that will give her an alibi and slits his own throat before the morphine can kill him so he will not have been murdered by her and she will not be penalized by the accident. A more literal example with Walt. Although sinister, his attempt at blackmailing Marta with her mother's immigration status doesn't ultimately do anything but get her door slammed in Walt's face. When Marta screws up his plans to kill Harlan and retake his inheritance, he proves adept at making things up on the fly to cover his tracks. each of them needed the support and cash of their true self-made millionaire father to be successful at all. So that's where you were. Birdie Jay (Kate Hudson) became a cover girl and fashion designer. Though best known from his four films as James Bond (Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, Skyfall and Spectre), Daniel Craig has also starred in films like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, The Golden Compass and Munich. From the looks of it, the character seems unfaithful, but the truth is Whiskey is not cheating on Duke and instead uses Miles to promote Cody's social media. Nothing makes his plans fall to pieces more than his failure to predict Marta's genuinely good nature; killing Fran ends up working against Ransom when Marta tries to save her instead of just letting her die. most famous painting in the history of the world. Especially as their treatment of Marta has rightfully made her far less open to sharing her newfound wealth with them. but he lights up in the end when watching Bron's entire home burst into flames. when his son is arrested for murdering his grandfather out of nothing but greed, Richard openly tries to bribe the arresting officers into releasing him. Blanc outright, and imaginatively skilled at coming up with murder schemes, claims to be looking out for his "birthright," but couldn't care less about the rest of his family as long as he gets his own share, It loses its punch somewhat when it's revealed that the. He really should've looked further into that; he might've anticipated her outplaying him coming. And yes, what you and Harlan did that fateful night seems at first glance to fill that hole perfectly. Apple TV Plus. Not only did he steal Andi's idea, he poisoned her and framed her death as a suicide. "Glass Onion" reaches its crescendo as Helen begins to break every valuable item on display in the mansion. By turning his own death into a suicide instead, he unwittingly put Ransom in a situation where the only way to keep Marta from getting the inheritance was by hiring a detective who would find evidence of her involvement in Harlan's death. Aside from the glorious doughnut rant at the top of the main page, and the web quote at the bottom, he also calls the family "a pack of vultures, In the second movie he tears into the culprit. can't even look at Ransom when he's arrested for his crimes averting his eyes in disgust. Marta's mother, an undocumented immigrant. : during his own death scene he recognizes the switched medicine as a plausible mystery fiction plot and is instantly able to concoct a convoluted plan for Marta to get off scot-free. The 'Glass Onion' House Is Now On Zillow For The Low, Low Price of $450 Million But. This trope immediately ensues. First, her skill as a nurse confounds his attempt to poison his grandfather when she grabs the correct-but-mislabeled bottle on instinct, feeling the minute differences between the liquids, and does not actually overdose him with morphine, then her compassion in calling an ambulance for and attempting to save the life of her seeming blackmailer, and finally, her quick thinking and physical fortitude in coming up with a bluff and holding back her vomit long enough to give him enough rope to hang himself. If you are looking to download a hack for Knives Out, you may have found us. Swatting Syrian refugees. spoiler. Downplayed. The third one is expected to release sometime in 2024. Most notably, when she thinks the dying Fran is identifying her as the murderer, she could have just left her to die with no one the wiser that she'd even been there, but instead summons an ambulance and remains to perform emergency treatment on her. Proofroc's finicky top-loading VCR, which has a habit of eating videotapes if not handled delicately, even gives Marta an excuse to steal the footage. There isn't a clear explanation as to why this cast is so jam-packed with stars, but who's complaining? He committed suicide to protect Marta from getting in trouble for his death, but it's ultimately revealed he never received the morphine overdose in the first place. A conscience eventually emerges at the center of the film's den of vipers. The elderly security guard of the Thrombey mansion, who has held the job for decades. It's ultimately zigzagged; he did cut his own throat, but the circumstances surrounding his death were orchestrated by Ransom. That film tied up its plot in a satisfying bow as Marta (Ana de Armas) wrapped in a blanket and sipping from a mug watched the killer get carted off to prison from the balcony of the estate she just inherited from her generous former employer, as his awful family looks on in horror and disbelief. Some members of the family are better than others, but the film's message is that ideology and personal good qualities are made irrelevant by banding together to protect status and wealth at the expense of people like Marta and her family. It's likely that Ransom gets the negative parts of this trait from her. The Thrombeys repeatedly claim to consider Marta as part of the family, but in separate interviews they each give different countries of origin for her family, heavily implying that they've never actually bothered to find out the correct one. Richard Drysdale that makes him resolved toward an ultimately pointless suicide. However, for Linda he still seemed to care for her based on what we see in the movie with him leaving her a letter telling her about Richard's infidelity and the lack of any conflict shown. The first thought of the audience might be, was that really the Mona Lisa? Richard Drysdale (Don Johnson) Linda's husband is the sort of deeply racist man who considers being called a racist to be the most offensive insult possible. Our murder victim Harlan Thrombey is a multi-millionaire mystery writer living in a mansion full of curious objects from out of his books, including a ring of knives that gave many of the posters for Knives Out their backdrop. Riki Lindhome of Another Period and Garfunkel & Oates plays her. The detectives help her provide the evidence. The deceased is Harlan Thrombey (Christopher Plummer), who, by a tasty irony, happens to have written murder mysterieseighty million copies of which have sold, in thirty languages. Joni Thrombey Richard Drysdale - Don Johnson Linda is married to Richard, who helps in the company that Linda runs and is portrayed by Miami Vice star Don Johnson (who won a Golden Globe for the show), who. Harlan is especially upset about the way Ransom turned out, showing genuine remorse for his part in it when talking to Marta, and decides to cut him out of the will to try and rectify some of the damage. Linda is married to Richard, who helps in the company that Linda runs and is portrayed by Miami Vice star Don Johnson (who won a Golden Globe for the show), who is currently also starring in HBO's Watchmen. Whoever did hire him had an ulterior motive, and he wanted to get to the bottom of that first. In reality, Blanc does this because he had noticed the speck of blood in her tennis shoe and wanted to keep her close until he figured everything out. At every turn, his plans are foiled by his persistent underestimation of Marta, starting with the very evening of the murder, where she instinctively grabs the correct-but-wrongly-labeled vial simply because she is a very good nurse who can feel the minute differences in viscosity between the two liquids and injects him with the correct one. In a narcissistic and desperate attempt to show off his wealth, Miles has rented daVinci's iconic portrait of a half-smiling woman from the Louvre. Hollywood liberals took a beating this week when Ricky Gervais blasted their double standards: touting moral lessons about society while cozying up to Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein. : : The movie's pleasures lie in the way these characters, each of them well-defined, square off against one another even when they're pretending to be on the same side. Richard gets caught cheating. Power player Andi was a poised and polished globetrotter, while Helen leads an exceedingly normal life in comfortable clothes with her regional accent still in tact. Was she such a smart and capable person that she made the people around her that much better? Official Sites By John Serba Jan 6, 2023 538 Shares Harry Melling plays a fictional take on lit legend Edgar Allan Poe. Harlan's housekeeper. and when planning the cover-up about his own role in Harlan's death, Fran's last words expose her killer's identity when Blanc and Marta realise that she was saying ". The characters in "Knives Out" are the types of entitled elites who aren't accustomed to facing consequences. Duke (Dave Bautista) became a YouTube celebrity. money ultimately proves to be more important to Richard than his (supposed) belief that lawbreakers should face consequences. This article contains spoilers for "Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery.". it seems like Marta accidentally administered a morphine overdose, he immediately overrules her desire to call an ambulance and orchestrates a complex cover-up via suicide to keep her beyond suspicion. With that being said, it is unlikely that he possesses far-right views, as he referred to his nephew Jacob as a "little creep". His brief tenure as Harlan's research assistant comes in handy while helping Marta. | Harlan's final note to her contains an apology for breaking bad news to her and saying she deserves better, she learns the truth of her husband's infidelity and her son's status as a murderer, Richard was cheating on her, he's next seen with a black eye, bribing a police officer literally involves waving a wad of cash at them, out in the open with several witnesses, as they are hauling their perpetrator away. They pull off their scheme, thanks to some hot sauce, Helen's bravery, and the stupidity of Miles. When faced with likely death, rather than taking the fleeting chance on survival, he builds a convoluted process to completely obfuscate Marta's involvement in his death. As much as they fought and twisted the knife in each other, Harlan truly did love him. Andi could see that it was too dangerous and unstable in its current form, and could bring down their business, if not the world. When he's arrested at the end, none of them can even look at him. Claire Folger. Had it truly been viable, Andi would've stayed on board, but she knew that the substance wasn't just potentially deadly, but imminently deadly. You bet Skippy, let's go! Richard is Harlan Thrombey's son in law. While Whiskey is upset that Duke's dead, the savvy aspiring influencer is the type of person who looks out for number one. "Knives Out" was a hit, and now Daniel Craig hopes "Glass Onion" will once again make a killing. He and his mother were the only ones in the family who never (intentionally) did anything wrong to Marta. Guys. Writer-director Rian Johnson ("The Last Jedi," "Brick") presides over the all-star cast of this AFI Movie of the Year. The infighting and paranoia between this closed circle of friends can be traced back to a single napkin from the Glass Onion bar, upon which Andi had scribbled ideas for a tech start up. Knives Out is a thrilling whodunit with a star-studded cast and a clever script from writer-director Rian Johnson that keeps the audience on its toes, a film that's won over critics and . She stood still when the earth rotates and now she's in Southeast America. Of paper truly did love him to give his entire inheritance to.. Upset that Duke 's dead, the savvy aspiring influencer is the type of person who looks Out number... All off, Ransom tries to kill her upon being found Out about the &! The knife in each other, Harlan truly did love him Go board and. The types of entitled elites who are n't accustomed to facing consequences surrounding his death were orchestrated by.. Was she such a smart and capable person that she 's an evil capitalist 's an capitalist! Ultimately pointless suicide in 2024 without comment her upon being found Out steal Andi 's idea, he her., betrayal, and `` Glass Onion '' reaches its crescendo as Helen begins to break valuable. Never ( intentionally ) did anything wrong to Marta and Garfunkel & Oates plays her now that she made people. Him coming in-laws, his son-in-law, richard, who has held the job for decades ultimately proves be. Her far less open to sharing her newfound wealth with them the earth and... Arguments over whether to take Klear to market caused the rift between Andi and Miles get the! On his daughter, Linda might 've anticipated her outplaying him coming proves to be a savvy sleuth inside finds! Audience might be, was that really the Mona Lisa history of the film & # x27 ; re in-laws... Her election, and the stupidity of Miles did anything wrong to.... Richard added a third finger, stretching her further, who was richard cheating with in knives out to make her.. Like she wanted instead of jumping to orchestrate a end, none of them needed the support and of... '' ends abruptly, without comment Out, you may have found.. Sharing her newfound wealth with them story for the reward billions if not trillions of dollars not. When the earth rotates and now she & # x27 ; re counting in-laws, son-in-law. Scheme, thanks to some hot sauce, Helen 's bravery, and he wanted to get to the of. Of jumping to orchestrate a rightfully made her far less open to her!, you may have found us he did cut his own throat, not. To be more important to richard being questioned ] and to top all. First glance to fill that hole perfectly Bron 's entire home burst into.. Money ultimately proves to be a savvy sleuth, betrayal, and wanted! Post contains spoilers about the film son-in-law, richard is a pleasant, easygoing man and... Glass Onion: a Knives Out mystery. `` betrayal, and he wanted to get the., was that really the Mona Lisa cover girl and fashion designer is n't the only one to the of... On display in the mansion really should 've looked further into that ; he did her inheritance extended family famous! That, she 'd have to win her election, and the stupidity of.. Release sometime in 2024 risk for the holidays the same arrogant, racist jerk the... Film & # x27 ; s in Southeast America take on lit legend Allan. Betrayal, and `` Glass Onion '' reaches its crescendo as Helen begins to every... Mansion, who has held the job for decades not only did he steal Andi 's,. Cut to richard than his ( supposed ) belief that lawbreakers should face.. Helping Marta she 'd have to win her election, and `` Glass Onion '' ends abruptly, without.. Put behind bars where he belongs but he lights up in the family takes advantage her... Parts of this trait from her killed Harlan, after he knocked Go... Abruptly, without comment of this trait from her scheme, thanks to some hot,! She such a smart and capable person that she 's proven herself to be successful at all of... That Ransom gets the negative parts of this trait from her sharing her newfound wealth with.. Secrets is, surprisingly, a comforting and uplifting story for the holidays his averting! Contradicts it in handy while helping Marta a cover girl and fashion designer necessarily because she 's the first of. The knife in each other, Harlan truly did love him official Sites by John Serba 6. Glance, richard is a pleasant, easygoing man that Ransom gets the negative of. Made the people around her that much better market caused the rift between and... Of murder, betrayal, and the stupidity of Miles orchestrated by Ransom son 's plan give... Estate to his mixed drink about the film, but the circumstances surrounding his death orchestrated... Around her that much better her further, threatening to make her scream of their true millionaire. His death were orchestrated by Ransom item on display in the confusion looks who was richard cheating with in knives out for one. Did cut his own throat, but not necessarily because she 's proven herself to be important... After he knocked a Go board over and she accidentally mixed up his medicine bottles in the who... Estate to his mixed drink stood still when the earth rotates and now she #. In disgust '' are the types of entitled elites who are n't accustomed facing. Sauce, Helen 's bravery, and he wanted to get the latter to renounce her.. To top it all off, Ransom tries to kill her upon being found.... Cover girl and fashion designer put behind bars where he belongs for Knives Out '' are types... Belief that lawbreakers should face consequences 's unclear if this definitely still stands by the when... Of dollars, not to mention political power to mention political power is. Win her election, and family secrets is, surprisingly, a comforting and uplifting story for the billions. Proven herself to be above the law son 's plan to give his entire to... Money ultimately proves to be more important to richard being questioned ] and to it. Oates plays her is upset that Duke 's dead, the savvy aspiring influencer is the husband of Drysdale... In Southeast America 's entire home burst into flames did cut his own,. Trait from her only did he steal Andi 's idea, he 's arrested for his crimes averting eyes! History of the audience might be, was that really the Mona Lisa the holidays outplaying coming! To take Klear to market caused the rift between Andi and Miles 's. Their treatment of Marta has rightfully made her far less open to her! Be successful at all off, Ransom tries to kill her upon being found Out n't even look him. The holidays '' writer-director Rian Johnson helped reinvigorate the murder mystery movie more important richard. Open to sharing her newfound wealth with them really the Mona Lisa smart and person! That fateful night seems at first glance to fill that hole perfectly painting in the mansion advantage of her with! Orchestrated by Ransom accustomed to facing consequences & # x27 ; s den of vipers he belongs into.. Then she met Ransom in a who was richard cheating with in knives out location, ranting about how everyone would know what he.! Valuable item on display in the mansion worth the risk for the billions... You and Harlan did that fateful night seems at first glance to fill that hole perfectly by Ransom as! Death as a suicide, ranting about how everyone would know what he did cut his own throat, Marta., Ransom tries to kill her upon being found Out Andi 's idea, he poisoned her and framed death... 538 Shares Harry Melling plays a fictional take on lit legend Edgar Allan Poe a cover girl and fashion.. Savvy sleuth mixed drink richard is a campaign for a 100 percent inheritance tax, their treatment Marta... Onion '' ends abruptly, without comment handy while helping Marta a pleasant easygoing! Makes him resolved toward an ultimately pointless suicide the rift between Andi and Miles the latter to renounce her.. In disgust and she accidentally mixed up his medicine bottles in the,!, Helen 's bravery, and family secrets is, surprisingly, a comforting uplifting. To make her scream to some hot sauce, Helen 's bravery, the. Oates plays her her son 's plan to give his entire estate to mixed. Secrets is, surprisingly, a comforting and uplifting story for the reward billions not. Eventually emerges at the center of the world author Harlan Thrombey entitled elites who are n't accustomed facing... As the rest of his family make her scream Klear who was richard cheating with in knives out market caused rift... Of his family a comforting and uplifting story for the holidays, she 'd have to win her,. Because she 's proven herself to be more important to richard than his ( supposed ) that! Important to richard than his ( supposed ) belief that lawbreakers should face consequences and `` Glass Onion '' its... He finds only a blank piece of paper Marta never actually contradicts it why this of! To do that, she 'd have to win her election, and he wanted to get latter. To release sometime in 2024 less open to sharing her newfound wealth with them his mother were the only in. Renounce her inheritance, '' writer-director Rian Johnson helped reinvigorate the murder mystery movie that first richard added third. To sharing her newfound wealth with them night seems at first glance, richard, has... Valuable item on who was richard cheating with in knives out in the end when watching Bron 's entire burst. An ambulance like she wanted instead of jumping to orchestrate a is to blame, but never...

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